Finding flow: a Q&A with Derek Brockington, dancer and choreographer
"Even if I created it, I need to be able to feel it viscerally"
Welcome to Revisionary, a Q&A series where artists talk about revising, redoing, and how to make what you create even better.
There’s just something about dance. If there’s a movie with good dancing in it, I press play immediately. On stage, it’s even more mesmerizing—a perfect blend of music and costuming and the body in motion.
I was so glad to get in touch with Derek Brockington, a dancer and choreographer who has been with the renowned Dance Theater of Harlem since 2018. In 2020, he co-created the viral “Dancing Through Harlem” video, a piece made when dancers were unable to perform for live audiences.
He was kind enough to talk to me from his apartment in New York City (during a heatwave no less) about editing the movement of bodies in space until everything lines up just so.
Tove Danovich: Can you introduce yourself and talk about the work you do?
Derek Brockington: I am a dancer and choreographer. I live in New York City and am a dancer with The Dance Theater of Harlem. I've been there for the past seven seasons and am heading into my eighth season. I've been dancing most of my life and it’s the thing that has allowed me to both be an artist and make a living. I’m very lucky, very fortunate to be doing this in New York City.
TD: Coming from a writing background, I use the word “revision” but is there something you have in dance to talk about making the work better?
DB: Especially with ballet, there's this urge for perfection that is never really attainable, but you have to constantly rewrite your body and rewrite your technique and be willing to go back and take things out to have more things fit in or to change things around.
With dancing and ballet-wise, it's a process of layering—going back and having to maybe unlearn some things but then replacing it with the right information. Choreography is similar but I find that revision in choreography is oftentimes necessary to get a fully fleshed out piece of work. It takes a lot of time. When I’ve been forced to rush, I don’t have time to—I guess revise is the right word—but touch up and fix things that don’t flow as well as I’d like.
TD: How much of knowing something isn’t working happens in your head and how much do you have to see someone else do it before you know?
DB: A lot of it is having to see it in front of you. In your head, in your mind's eye, it really is more of the hoping that it works. Your brain will do anything to make it fit in there. Sometimes you have a really good idea of what was going to do well and what's not, but you're never going to really know until you see it. You can only do so much in your brain before working in person.
“Seeing how different movement qualities emerge from my body as I get older or as I do more work is really nice. It’s really cool to see growth or change in myself or the things that come out of me.”
-Derek Brockington
TD: It seems hard that if you need to see someone else dance it to know if it works, you’re also dealing with the skill of the dancer bumping up against how well what you’ve created is working.
DB: It’s all about how you translate what you see in your mind to the physical space. And a lot of times, it does rely on the ability of the dancer or your own ability to translate it from your mind and relay it to someone else. There’s so many factors that come into play staging a work like that.
TD: Can you tell me about something you were working on lately—either to dance or a piece you choreographed—and how you knew it wasn’t working and approached fixing it?
DB: There was this work I created for Sparkling Sunday at Dance Theatre of Harlem, which is this opportunity for the company members to create choreography for other people. It was a piece called “Banner.” I had worked on it in 2021 and got to restage it again in 2023. It was interesting to have time away from it and to say, okay, this still isn't working.
But you never wasted time making something. It’s always a process of layering and building on something.
TD: That's a nice dovetail into my next question which is how do know when something isn't working? And I'm curious about that piece specifically and what about it is telling you it’s not there yet?
DB: The music is so beautiful in my mind and so telling. I see things so clearly in my mind but [on stage] it doesn’t have the storytelling flow I feel like the music deserves. I don’t feel something when I’m watching it.
I need to be able to feel it viscerally. Even if I created it, it has to have a moment of “this is as similar to ‘in my head’ as I can get it.” It's about the flow. I think there's a natural way of keeping your eyes busy on stage. And that's what I'm trying to figure out too.
TD: Can you tell me a little bit about something that you worked on that did work and how that felt?
DB: We're doing a collaboration with the MTA here in New York. And so they asked me to create a small piece of choreography for a commercial but I made it into a dance film that was in the subway.
I started working on the choreography a few months ago but it included pieces of work I made last summer during a dance intensive I did in the park. It had a more contemporary aspect to the movement that combines with the neoclassical.
It just flowed really well. I had an idea; I had themes for what I wanted; I had material I could shape to the emotions; and the music just carried me and I could see very clearly what was going to happen next. I was really happy that I had created those things before and was able to throw it in there.
(A clip of Derek Brockington dancing in Jodie Gates’ Passage of Being for the Dance Theater of Harlem.)
TD: You've used the word flow a couple of times to describe when something's good or ‘it doesn't have it’. Is there a way that you can define flow?
DB: I know, what a non-descript description [he laughs]. But by flow and saying that it’s good or bad I want to describe the way your body is falling or moving through space naturally. It’s something that feels comfortable to dance.
When it’s comfortable or fun, I think that reads when watching the choreography as well. It allows for the dancer to show bits of themselves when they have a natural movement path through the choreography. I think those things are what make choreography shine and make dancers shine.
When I refer to choreography that has a flow, it means what we’re moving through space but almost in time with the direction that our bodies are going.
I’ve never tried to explain it before so I’m not sure if it makes sense.
TD: I think so. I realized it was a hard question as I was asking it.
DB: It means something but what does it really mean? It’s finding moments to fall into the next step while still hitting the things I want to hit.
“It can be really tough to go and watch yourself…But it is one of the most beneficial ways to improve and to be aware of your body as it moves through space.”
-Derek Brockington
TD: That’s a beautiful way of putting it. When do you have something that’s not working—like that piece you mentioned that’s still not right—what makes you want to keep coming back to try new things with it versus letting it go?
DB: There’s definitely room to allow yourself to say, “Hey, not this one, not right now or whatever.” But I think it’s so fun to go back and say “Was this really what I was thinking with this music?” Maybe you find it too simple or far too complicated. Through your experiences, your brain has thought about it more. So you’ve had more time to mull over things and good things can come out of that.
I think there’s a lot of merit to taking a snapshot of your brain at that moment.
TD: Yeah, sometimes I go back to things I wrote in high school and I'm technically a lot better than I was then. But there's also something about like the raw energy of those things. Like, some part of this, I couldn't do now. And I really admire that like younger version of me. You just have all the feeling and none of the skill.
Do you have any advice for someone who's struggling to get something right?
DB: First and foremost, keep trying. Know that every mistake or anything that feels like a loss is just gearing you up for success and teaching you how to succeed.
TD: I feel like when I think about dance—and I am not a dancer that's trained at it—but I think so much about the mirrors or videoing yourself and watching it back. Can you can talk about that interplay?
DB: I have to keep watching it to see what I'm looking like. It can be really tough to go and watch yourself. It's a very hard thing for dancers to do. But it is one of the most beneficial ways to improve and to be aware of your body as it moves through space.
I really enjoy watching my choreography as well. I feel like I can really see things in my mind and when I can have these images next to the video. I can really be like “okay this is where they are in the music now and here’s where I want them to be.” It’s such good homework to watch it again and ask what’s not vibing with my eye? Where is my eye looking. There’s so much good that can come out of watching the video instead of imagining it.
TD: Is there anything else that you’re currently working on or just finished that you're really excited about and want to talk about?
DB: Recently we did a program, a school show our dance theater school. It's like we [the dance company] do the second act of the show and the kids do this first act and it's called Harlem Mouse, Country Mouse. I was basically put in charge of putting together the second act of this show. This year they put me in charge of the rehearsals. So that was a great opportunity to be in front of the room and run rehearsals and make a schedule and just know that I can do that or even that people are looking at me in that way. So that was a nice kind of grown-up thing.
We performed for Juneteenth in Oklahoma and I choreographed a contemporary piece for that, a pas de deux. Having that process and seeing how different movement qualities emerge from my body as I get older or as I do more work is really nice. It’s really cool to see growth or change in myself or the things that come out of me. I’m surprised by it. I’m excited by that surprise.
TD: What is inspiring you lately in your work or where do you turn for inspiration?
DB: I love seeing shows. I don't see as much of them as I should. But when I do, I draw a lot of inspiration from that. I get a lot of inspiration from being outside and being around people. I think seeing people interact is so interesting. A lot of times I translate it to dance in my mind. These tableaus of people interacting and how it would translate to physical movement.
I've been told I have a big imagination and I didn't think about it that much before. But I find it’s so exciting to have the ability to invent and create something that started in my head and translate it into the real world.
Thank you so much to Derek for his time. The definition of flow and how I might define it in my own work has been mulling around in my head since we talked. You can follow him on Instagram or see him in person at a Dance Theater of Harlem performance the next time you’re in New York City.
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this was a great convo, thanks for this!